WIP Painting for the cover of a book I\

Work Critique Room
Would like your comments on the painting so far. I am writing the history of the 489 (NZ) torpedo bomber squadron based in Scotland during the war. The painting background is based on an actual photo of their attack on shipping in the Sogne Fjord in April 1945. I have placed photos of the aircraft where I would like to see them exiting the fjord. The sea in the painting has come out very bright in the photo it is a lot duller than that.  
  
  http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5940/dsc0016wm.jpg
  
25/08/2012 01:31:33
Have you read this ? go down to the black friday section
  
  http://www.mcneillifestories.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&task=tag&tag=489%20Squadron
  
    
  
  Apart from that I would try to seperate the two on the right a little, maybe bring the one banking Right (large one) to the left so the Fin Tip is in the centre of the pic & push the smaller one more to the right (keep the sizes the same)
  
  
25/08/2012 09:26:39
I   have three   good books   on   this   aspect   of the   war   and   your   set   up  certainly   captures   the mental   images   I     got when reading   them.  
  
  Like   Gollum   I     would   consider   disentangling   the   two   front   Beaus.  
  
  I   don't   know   if   it's   the   darker   tones   in   the   following   a/c or   just   the   complex   geometry   of   the   overlap   but     I   feel   that   part   of   the   painting     draws   my   eye   and   blocks     that   "wander in   and     look   around "   impression   you  need.
  
25/08/2012 09:56:56
Thanks for the comments I think I will delete the a/c behind the larger one. Perhaps I was trying to get to many in and it looks a lot better balanced without it. I have also taken out the big splash as the waterfall hits the sea.
  
    
  
  Gollum I have read that article. What has amazed me in doing the research for the book was their ages. 25 years old they were called the old men. I wonder if this generation would sacrifice as much.
  
25/08/2012 11:45:05
You need to have (3) aircraft, they attacked in (3's)
  
  And 3 forms the Art Triangle (standard viewing format) since leonardo
  
  Try what we said & see what you think, & the lower the better....adds speed wink
  
    
  
  As for the ages of the airmen in the artical.....they were very old....pilots in the Battle of britain etc were still teenagers
  
    
  
  And yes if push came to shove against someone like Hitler you would have queues miles long waiting to sign up
  
  When the Falklands kicked off they were overwelmed with volunteers wanting to have a go at the Junta
  
  We seem to have a strange mindset in the Uk, we don't really want to start wars...but we do like to finish them smile
  
25/08/2012 13:05:48
Have done a re-jigg of the photos and I finally like this one. Gollum you are right three are better than just the two.
  
    
  
  http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1362/finalnf.jpg
  
26/08/2012 01:02:32
Thats better
  
    
  
  I know this is just the beginning but my  eyes keep looking at two things
  
  1) the Waterfall from below the wing
  
  2) the Distinct Line that is on the right from the engine of the main A/C running across the picture
  
  Both are cutting a section out of the picture, that whole section (including the new aiircraft) looks as though it has been plonked there from a different painting, it needs to have a tree/rock breaking the Waterfall line & the line running from the engine needs a tree or something to break the line up
  
  Apart from that to me it is looking good smile
  
26/08/2012 22:02:18
Thanks for your time Gollum, ever point so far make sense and taken on board. We will see how we go from here!
  
  Cheers
  
  Don
  
27/08/2012 09:08:49
You are welcome
  
    
  
  Only wish I could see these things in my own paintings instead of going boldly on into the Abyss embarassed
  
27/08/2012 09:21:49
I started the painting again and now I am up to painting the aircraft which I am finding difficult they don't seem to jump out enough. also tried to add the sense of speed in the water. Your comments are welcome.
  
    
  
  http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/303/dsc0003uh.jpgcrycry
  
08/09/2012 03:02:01
Post the picture you are useing so people can point you in the right direction
  
  I would say that the (First) pic you posted of the landscape was better, now it looks to Green, everything takes on a blueness the further it goes back, soften it up as well
  
  You seem to have lost the water level, some is going uphill
  
  From what I can remember (long time ago) the water in the Fiords is Flat Calm
  
    
  
  So sort out the mountains etc first, for the water mirror the image (softer colours/less detail) and then Streak it to make it look like water (look at other paintings to see how they did it)
  
    
  
  Once that is done the concentrate on the planes, to get them moveing...soft edges at the rear of things like the Fin etc and a few whisps of vapour from the wing tips, and a nice Blur for the props near the spinner to about 3/4 the way up the prop, if you do a full prop circle it will slow the planes down again...props screw thier way through the air so when a plane is moveing you should never in reality see a (Prop Circle)....you only see that when they are stationary wink
  
  
08/09/2012 10:49:38
This is the original picture of the fjord that I have based the painting on. Thank you for your comments the first has more depth with the lighter background in the mountains, after your comment and looking at them side by side I agree. The latest picture I put up is very red for some reason.
  
    
  
  http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2907/gulen1006008.jpg
  
08/09/2012 11:51:27
Is that the mission on youtube where they came over the top of the mountain & down into the cove to make thier attack instead of running up the Fiord ?
  
    
  
  I would bring the ships out a bit more so you can see them, it is unclear what the (Blur is) untill you see the screen grab
  
  See if you can find that little place on a map, it might give you a better understanding of what you are actually painting
  
  Google might even have satalite phots
  
  
08/09/2012 12:24:27
the last couple of days (actually evenings) I have just concentrated on the background. Gollum the fjord I found it is the Sogne Fjord although there was nothing from the angle it has helped a lot.  
  
    
  
  http://imageshack.us/a/img571/7604/beau489w.jpg
  
13/09/2012 00:04:17
looks like I have lost some of the photos. Anyway here is the almost complete painting. Sorry taken at night with a flash. Please let me know what i need to correct.  
  
    
  
  Gollum not sure where to stick the ship you suggested I put in.cry
  
    
  
  http://imageshack.us/a/img845/4281/dsc0002wrc.jpg
  
17/09/2012 10:38:46
Being a bit of a (prig) here....it's a British thing ya know wink  what I would do>>>>>
  
    
  
  Left hand tail plain & wing to long on the main  Beaufighter, tail plain needs to end just before it reaches the mid upper gun position
  
  Left hand wing should end around where you have the roundel (furthest point/furthest edge) (loose about 1/3rd) that should sort the A/C out
  
  Put a few white touches (water lapping) on the shoreline under the R/Hand plane
  
  As for the Ship, just have the Bow & maybe a little superstructure & mast poking out from the smoke, at the moment the smoke looks strange, putting a ship bow etc in will make the viewer know it is  (smoke)
  
  The actual picture is good, looks Fast & low....just what you wanted cool
  
17/09/2012 11:44:41
Have done some changes put the stern of the ship in with the gun turret and a few explosions around the rear aircraft and added a few wisp of clouds on the far mountains.
  
    
  
  http://imageshack.us/a/img89/9509/dsc0004wbaj.jpgartist
  
17/09/2012 23:54:52
Hi napier
  
  I think you are trying to be to accurate to the picture, the ships are tucked away in a cove...yeh fair enough & hidden in smoke
  
    
  
  But you still can't see them (it) enough to identify it as a ship, I would pull the ship you are working on out just past the wing tip of the main Beaufighter
  
    
  
  I hate being critical frown
  
    
  
  Is this clip on youtube?
  
18/09/2012 00:28:23
Yea don't like the ship anyway. and no the only ones I came across on DVD os the one that mainly shows the mosquito attacking ships.  
  
  PS you are not being critical I believe in taking on any suggestions and criticism as that how one learns. Anyway if I did not agree I would do what I do with the wife - do as I was going to do anyway!!wink
  
18/09/2012 00:52:01
He he
  
    
  
  I know what you are saying.....it just seems as though I am being picky
  
    
  
  The concept is really good & I want it to look it's best especially as it's for a cover, lets face it a good cover at the least gets the pages opened...all a bad cover does is collects dust no matter how good the book is
  
    
  
  That main beaufighter is good enough on it's own to get the pages open cool
  
  Everything is nearly there....it's just that cove thats my problem, I would put a ship there on fire (small fires starting) but not masses of smoke
  
  There is a clip on you tube you should watch.......i'll find it & post the link tomorrow, there is not that much smoke strait after a quick strike
  
18/09/2012 02:53:06