Hi All,


   Spent the whole day going through web sites & militaria dealers yesterday

   i cant believe how many prints are on the market for sale ! how the hell do dealers survive ? with people not having the money anymore to buy prints like they use to isn't it time publishers and galleries changed prices accordingly.i know not all dealers are tarred with the same brush but some still seem to be away in space with there prices.im so suprised the m/g haven't bought out a range of prints or giclees to go with the economical times just seems so stupid ? it will be very interesting to see how 2011 is going to progress on print sales,just look at the collections and prints up for sale here........need fresh ideas and new blood..and new prices !!!


19/01/2011 05:31:54
Yes I agree, many items are priced to stay in stock and not to sell!
19/01/2011 06:48:13
I was thinking along the same line.


   Some of the MG prints have been in stock for about 20 years, and they have not reduced price to sell them. They might even raise the price of them now.....as some of these prints have good signatures on them.


   The good thing about not dropping the price, is that you don't buy a print for ??200 and find them selling it for ??100 a year later.


   Nick Trudgian does seem to of taken action. The Artist Special Reserve, is only signed by Nick, and only cost ??70. This allows you to get the print at a very reasonable price, or pay more for the signatures. Robert Taylor prints don't have an economy no signature version.
19/01/2011 06:50:11
Watched a whole load of Robert taylor prints sell on Ebay last week.


   The ones in mint condition sold at approximately 50% to 65% of their RRP.


   It would seem to me that the basic print price need to come down ......??120 to ??130 would be about right for the basic version.


   Maybe MG think they will be able to hold their prices, as they will be one of only a few sellers with a stock of signed paper.


   Talking with an art dealer recently, Remarques seem to of remained popular despite everything. However, they don't seem that popular on Ebay.....maybe it's because the subject is a personal choice and there are also the Ebay risk of purchasing an unseen but expensive print.


   Another question, are there any young people starting collections? I was bought up on WW2 films and comics, but young people have different tastes now. Will the market die out as the collectors die off ?


   I cab see a ww2 signatures becoming more collectable, because the signers have become history. This may generate a demand for prints..... but will it be only as a means of gaining a signature.
30/01/2011 20:16:36
Yes, agree.


   Needing better prices however this is getting better!


   Buyers buy directly from artists - keeps down costs and one can go straight to the source for questions.


   Young collectors, I hope they are out there. One would think digital art would be all the rage but there is still huge interest in traditional paint and canvas.


   Lets see more giclee on canvas prints. Artist should go exclusively giclee, lithos are dead.


   Artists should consider "standard sizes" for images to cut down on framing costs for collectors (sorry framers). Not always but consider it! I know this sounds like artistic compromise but there is nothing wrong with accommodating the market a little.


   MOST IMPORTANTLY - quit the emphasis on vet signatures. We were recently told that MG has thousands of sigs on paper waiting for prints. How meaningful can these sigs be if the Vet has no "buy in" just signing a blank piece of paper.
31/01/2011 06:35:04
Well granted I sold these to one a few collectors I sell and buy to/from a lot.......but I just sold Otto Kittel (which is damm hard to find) and a double signed Hoffmann card with Werner Molders/Adolf Galland at a bit above 50% WHAT I paid for them.


   I think its a good time to but framed art (if the framing is top notch) as framing something right is still a fortune. Deals are to be had.



04/02/2011 04:24:53
I am going to go on and stick my head out.....for the most part, the print market is dead. Yep, dead. For the most part a limited edition litho print might as well be a poster and it's not just the economy.

   That is all coming from a framers point of view who couldn't tell you the last time someone asked for a print or brought a print in to be framed.

   Most framers are clearing out their print inventory. One local gallery who is very successful basically gave away a large portion of their prints (DeBuis, etc) for pennies on the dollar. Only way to get rid of them.


   Giclee is the only repo method people seem interested in, but again very few people buying art right now. If they are, its originals. People framing family photos, memorabilia, diplomas, etc, but not art.


   Wildlife and scenic prints have flooded the market. Too many Vetriano look alikes as well:) And look at Thomas Kincaid going down with the ship...he he he...


   Anyway, IMO aviation art is doing a lot better than most. Artist like Wade, James Dietz and Russ and all the digital folks on here that blow my mind are true MASTERS. We have some folks in this genre that are MILES ABOVE anyone if you look at other generes in comparison to artist. That is helping a lot!

   That and the novetly / addition of the signatures is helping. I like autographs :) That sweetens the deal for me on aviation art.


   IMO big publishers are going to be a thing of the past. Look at Greenwich, they are taking orders before they print!! Talk about making sure something sells out. I think the big aviation publishers are in their twilight and won't last much longer. Market IS WAY over saturated. This is a niche market folks and look at the size of their catalog!!! Quanity vs quality......


   Remarques.....very rare to find one outside of our little group. They do exist, but it is not a big part of the art market. Personally I love them :) A little original, but again, back to the comment about original vs prints....


   That's my little unorganized rant.


   For what it is worth, it would take a lot and I mean a lot to make me by a print. I have what I want, and I am starting to frame my collection up and selling off at a loss some of the prints I can live without.
04/02/2011 05:06:43
A very good breakdown. I am glad I have focused on lot of remarques, signed photocards, original pencil drawings, a few original oils and then I try to get rare prints and prints with LOTS of signatures. For instance Those Valiant Few with 50 signatures it sold out before release, a very limited number of prints released etc.

   Over 50% of my print collection has remarques and when possible I get double-remarques and when I can swing it or they offer (Russell Smith, Wade Meyer I have even had Robert Bailey add 4 remaques on Typhoon Attack? the BoB print with 14 sigs. I will order the quadrouple remarque.)


   Its funny I have a large Robert Watts original oil (currently touring England with Aces High/Military gallery) Its on consignment as well but my opinion on purchasing that piece grows more and more positive. If it does not fetch a legit price (i've turned down 3500- hey its 36X24 with a new $400 frame on it) I will bring it home and hang it up again.


   Some of the prices MG wants for its top editions are so out of line its funny.


   What do you guys think?


   Boy am I glad nobody offered me what I wanted on the below double-signed SANKE card by Oswald Boelke and Max Immelmann.




04/02/2011 06:41:05
Everything is cheaper now because people don't have money to spend. You don't have to be Ben Bernanke to figure that out.


   Notice I said "everything" is cheaper. Prints, giclees, canvas giclees, signatures, originals - everything.


   Let's take canvas giclees as a case in point. About a year ago, Greenwich Workshop released what is arguably William S Phillips' most prized image - "Dauntless Against A Rising Sun" - as a canvas giclee. The price was $1250. It is still available. Even at that lofty price, 3 or 4 years ago, those probably would have been gone in a month. Not anymore.


   Greenwich Workshop has just released another WSP great - "Welcome Home Yank" ??    on canvas. One of the old lithographs of that print was listed on eBay several weeks ago for $2600! The seller has recently reduced it to $2000. In either case, that gives you some idea of the rarity of that particular print. Responding to the marketplace, however, Greenwich Workshop has priced the new canvas giclee at $595. That's a $655 drop in price from the ???Dauntless??? release. I think that move speaks volumes about the current marketplace, especially for a product that some would claim is all the rage right now.


   As Pat has told us, based on the items he is selling, the prices for originals and signatures are down considerably as well. Based on what I have heard from talking to other collectors and artists, it??   s not just Pat experiencing the downturn, it is widespread. I??   m sure some are managing to buck the trend, but they are the exception.


   On the other hand, there is ample evidence that reports of the demise of the print market are greatly exaggerated. It??   s down, significantly, but not dead. I??   ll mention some recent Military Gallery releases that seem to be doing well (in most cases the upper editions are all sold out):


   Dawn Eagles Rising

   Opening Sky

   Height and Sun

   Bold, Reckless, and Supreme

   Air Armada

   Valiant Response


   For another data point, a framed copy of Robert Taylor??   s ???Phantom Strike??? just sold for $1226 on eBay! That??   s a stunning result for a framed print on eBay.


   I believe good Robert Taylor prints are among the best at maintaining or exceeding their purchase price. That??   s coming from a guy who collects and enjoys plenty of other artists. That??   s based on my limited personal experience, and based on watching eBay sales over the years. Obviously, this is not true of all RT1 prints. It??   s not even true of most RT1 prints. There are plenty of RT1 prints that collectors aren??   t very interested in. But if you have developed a knack for selecting the good ones, that will help limit your downside.


   It is only fair to note that there are some other artists whose prints can rival RT1??   s in terms of value. John Shaw comes to mind. He??   s got quite a few sold out, high dollar editions, despite a much smaller catalog. William S Phillips is right up there too. There are certainly a few others, but I??   ll just stop here.


   So what makes a good print? Obviously, a cracking image is key. Nothing more to say there.


   The subject is extremely important. The fact is that common themes like Luftwaffe, Battle of Britain, Dambusters, Doolittle Raid continue to be popular. Particular aircraft (Spitfire, Me-109, Mustang) continue to be popular.


   I believe that signatures can be important too. I base this on the fact that the higher end editions of signature prints tend to sell out first and do better over time in terms of value. Signatures are not going to carry a bland image, but they can certainly add interest to a good one.


   Remarques can help too. They must be well done. They help the most when they have broad appeal. Popular subjects will be more sought after. A sweet Spitfire or Mustang remarque is really going to enhance a print. On the other hand, a landing craft is not (there is an RT1 landing craft remarque on eBay, priced much lower than his current rate, and it has been there for a long, long time). If you??   re going to request a really unusual remarque subject, it may actually hurt the value of your print.


   So, basically, I think a common theme here is rarity or uniqueness. The market is only so big. There are lots of competing prints out there. Something has to set yours apart to make it desirable. I think it??   s one or more of the characteristics I??   ve mentioned ??    great image, popular subject, interesting signatures, a fine remarque ??    that makes a print more desirable than the rest. Those are the prints people tend to hang on to once they??   ve found them.


   Again, in times like these, the price of everything is down. Everything.


   Hopefully, you can avoid having to sell during such a time.


   Of course, if you can thoughtfully select art you love, and have it stand the test of time, you won??   t be concerned with long discussions of valuation! It??   s a worthy goal. I wish I could say I??   ve achieved it, but I??   m not there yet!


04/02/2011 22:56:21
If you are selling to raise cash, then this is a bad time to sell.


   If you are selling off prints you don't like, to get ones you do, then swapping prints is a good option.


   If you have cash to spend, then this is a great time to be buying prints.


   Prime time RT1 prints, with the rarer signatures, in mint condition, are the ones to hang onto.
05/02/2011 08:56:24